Curse

I Brother Bloood I · Nov 11, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes
moving is ftw imo...

Deep freeze ftw...

Tainek · Nov 11, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Brother Bloood I

Deep freeze ftw...

Return Ftw

Yup, rock paper sissors

Well i massacred every team i met when i ran iway for giggles and poops, but that was due to one thing, Life stealing (25 Points a hit stolen) , so i would say the counter is damage that cant be reduced by armour or incoming, so conditions, Hex's, and life steal, Hex's arnt viable (Divert hex), conditions are easly mopped up (RC), so only life steal is left, im afraid i dont know how to fit a large amount of life steal into a large build, Prepaps a shoutbot Paragon, with a battery paragon, and 4 necro/monks putting on lifesteal pressure, pretty weak stuff though

Divinus Stella · Nov 12, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

The problem is the monks have insane energy from energizing finale, also they have 110~AL from stand your ground and watch yourself, then theres Incoming which halves all damage, along with a fair bit of healing from other shouts.

Its hard to counter, i think theres a shout called hexbreaker aria or something, removes hex's from that ally everytime they use a skill so hex overload isnt as great as people make out.

Alleji · Nov 12, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Brother Bloood I

Deep freeze ftw...

Um... what the hell are you trying to maelstrom? Monks? Even under deep freeze, it'll only take them about 3-5 seconds to get out. They can cast 1/4 spells easily through maelstrom if necessary and they have two paragons spamming prot 24/7.

On paragons, maelstrom doesn't even work. Personally, I'd just stand there if I'm not a monk, because it's impossible to breathe in this build without getting healed for 104 while doing it.

dgb · Nov 12, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Two dom mesmers, blackout, sig of humility, power block and other good stuff = gg on the monks. THe paragons take a lot of the pressure but they can't do spot healing and you can collapse the build if the monks are crying.

Of course you need someone who can play mesmer well, a rare sight these days.

I Brother Bloood I · Nov 12, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Aw crap i thought we were talkin bout sf LAWL! Got that build stuck in my head for some reason.

EDIT - Well i have a counter anyway. Vocal Minority + Suffering. And before u say where i gonna get necro in ha.(Like i know some might) Secondaries ftw...

~Vanilla~ · Nov 12, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

Its hard to counter, i think theres a shout called hexbreaker aria or something, removes hex's from that ally everytime they use a skill

Fix'd.
Hexbreaker Aria's only helping their Monks since Thumpers and Paras don't use Spells.

Formosa · Nov 13, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Heh, I got a lot of responses.

-Hex degen DOES own this. I realized this shortly after posting this.
-Strangely, everytime I've played this build 1v1 I've rolled them flawlessly...guess that's why they weren't in halls >_>
-They DID run Divert Hexes and our necro had a single cover hex...gg

-E-Denial is the worst possible counter to this LOL. Energizing Finale much? gg.

Kabale · Nov 13, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Could probably just run Spoil Victor... not life steal but all-ignoring

luilui · Nov 13, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

My problem is not beating them, we have a hex build (very simple one) that can beat this paragon crap as well as many other builds, but the problem is it's very week defensively, so even if we win hoh we cant hold, it's like we take the down one lame holding team for another lame holding team. In the end we gave up and went to do lame holding build like all other lame ppl.

TheZens · Nov 13, 2006, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Bottom line is Paragons are overpowered they need big nerfs take my pve char at the moment as an example keeping in mind im 1/3 of the way through the game with only 4 elites and lots of skills needed to unlock

watch youself
shields up
mending refrain
aria of zeal
barbed spear
cruel speak (elite)
anthem of flame
res sig

5 tactics
10 spear
13 motivation
12 leadership

Now this isnt even optimised and doesnt even use a good elite but i can

Give a 12 sec shields up vs projectiles from rangers and paragons
An almost constant +20 armor from watch yourself and it gives me free energy
keep +4 health regen on all my party thats 8 ppl for pve with minimal effort.
give ally's +7 energy every time they use a spell for 10 seconds every 21 seconds
Do 3 secs of burning whenever any of the party use attack skills
do a easy 12 seconds of bleeding to a target foe
cause a deep wound for a co-ordinated spike of some kind.

Im not even using the best skills here and i havent even optimised my attributes that well but is it right that mending refrain can be kept up so easily with vitually no counters around? comparable skills to it are recuperation and a mending bonder both of which have major drawbacks such as consuming a whole character or force you to take lots of energy management, cover enchantments and other skills to keep them up. Mending refrain allows you to spam it early on in the battle or before battle and keep it up just by giving your team other party wide chants and shouts to help them further, this isnt right and it needs nerfing.

The barbed spear and anthem of flame are ok i think not too overpowered but still your doing a lot of degen spamming both around and are powerful in their own way in the right builds.

*removed incorrect info*

I should mention Energizing finale too i guess i dont have this skill yet but at 13 motivation it lasts 32 seconds and gives +4 energy whenever a shout or chant ends, which lets face it happens a lot, even with my pve build i can get off more than 10 shouts or chants in that time with 2 paragons lets say 20 chants or shouts during its duration and you have 80 energy every 32 seconds thats an insane 150 energy per minute for someone during that period (i actually think im being conservative here). Consider that a caster with 4 pips of regen gets 80 energy a minute from natural regen and your looking at giving those characters another 8 pips of regen and it only cost a paragon 5 energy to put it on you and it cant be stripped and the skill has no downsides to it, its not even an elite.

Right now i dont think there is any point mentioning other paragon skills many are broken in some way or another. Izzy needs to stop doing cart wheels and start nerfing this stuff.

phasola · Nov 13, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

-E-Denial is the worst possible counter to this LOL. Energizing Finale much? gg.

Yeah i realized that after we played with a paragon yesterday. Maybe diversion, blackout, because E-denial doesn't do anything.
The main problem with Paragons is they don't have any counters. Sure vocal minority but when are you gonna run that in a non hex build. So nice of Anet of introducing a class with no counters. How knows, maybe in Ch4 we'll see some. ..
They do need to nerf it, but i hope they don't overnerf it like the did with the ritualist.
In the end you have no choice like Lui said. You just have to run this crap because hexes & other stuff are not very good for holding.
Thx Anet for the wonderful 6v6, so MUCH diversity!

Riotgear · Nov 13, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread Fan

See you fixed all ever so important PvE crap that we are all so concerned about...

They don't make sweeping changes to PvP until the ladder is closed.

Ghost Recon · Nov 13, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheZens

Aria of zeal ok so i can give my monks +7 energy 48% of the time hmm 7 x (lets say 5 spells cast during those 10 seconds and thats me being conservative) = 35 energy.

It doesn't work like that once the ally uses the spell Aria of Zeal is removed.

TheZens · Nov 13, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Recon

It doesn't work like that once the ally uses the spell Aria of Zeal is removed.

My mistake i should have paid more attention to my heroes when spamming it still its 20 energy every 60 seconds for each spellcaster thats basically giving all casters another free pip of energy regen for the cost of one skill slot. Still an ok skill to use since you free up an emanagement slot on your caster's bars. Definatly not as overpowered as i first thought.

Aryn Rand · Nov 14, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Hex works but it takes time. So you using it on a altar maps is kinda bad.
You need a decent team on the other side to win fast enough against the extrem holding version(wars on war etc)

The Silver Star · Nov 14, 2006, 01:40 PM // 13:40

The roblem is i think there are no direct counters to Shouts and Chats other than Vocal and Silence which are hard to incorporated in most builds. Where as there are lots of counters to Enchantments.

Divinus Stella · Nov 14, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Well, we were running a condition build with headbut warriors last nite, the dazed on the monks along with 10 degen on everything really raped that paragon build, not much in the way of holding, but nice to have games shorter than 1hr vs that lame crap.

Lord Mendes · Nov 14, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

Well, we were running a condition build with headbut warriors last nite, the dazed on the monks along with 10 degen on everything really raped that paragon build, not much in the way of holding, but nice to have games shorter than 1hr vs that lame crap.

QFT.

The percentage of holding builds in HA is too much.

Mental Leteci · Nov 15, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Funny thing is that even after all this whining on forums 90% of you are still playing HA.